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Post by jeffhuebner on Feb 12, 2011 8:23:25 GMT -5
I thought the corner markers (tiles) worked ok last time but was wondering if anybody had other ideas. The disc still throw the cars as we have seen. I was wondering if some PVC pipe or interduct would work. Or maybe some plastic rain gutter turned upside down or even a foam corner marker. Just some ideas...
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zscott
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Post by zscott on Feb 12, 2011 8:34:13 GMT -5
you need something different because everybody cuts the corners when passing or just cutting the track to make up time.
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harv
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Post by harv on Feb 12, 2011 23:37:10 GMT -5
could try a inside wall with the boards that we have.
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Post by bschelling on Feb 13, 2011 23:09:43 GMT -5
I really liked last time when we had the wood 3-4 foot in (so we don't hit and wreck), but still had the tiles so we knew where we were supposed to be. Could we keep the wood inside, but away and then have thin sheet metal of some kind that is 'hemmed/bent' under so there are no sharp corners to cut tires or people? It could be taped down like the tiles or formica. I think that would be sturdy enough to not get destroyed by our cars running over them.
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harv
Heat Race Winner
Posts: 105
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Post by harv on Feb 14, 2011 17:03:57 GMT -5
that would work, use something like 3/16 sheetmetal with the sides folded over. It will be strong so as to not to brake when steped on yet thin so that when a car hits it it wont bust up parts and stuff
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Post by nytroe5 on Feb 15, 2011 20:49:20 GMT -5
3/16? that is not sheetmetal that is plate steel. 16 ga is what i think your after
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harv
Heat Race Winner
Posts: 105
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Post by harv on Feb 15, 2011 20:54:37 GMT -5
yeah i dont know that much about sheetmetal.
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Post by Jerry Driscoll on Feb 16, 2011 18:47:34 GMT -5
OK, it’s time for me to weigh in with my opinion. I know that most of you don’t care much about my opinion but here goes. I think you guys are way over-thinking this whole inside track barrier thing. I’ve been racing RC cars for quite a few years and the most frequently used, and most effective type of track barrier I’ve seen over the years is boards. Can they break your car if you hit them? Sure they can! Is there a solution for that? Yes. Don ‘t hit them. Discs are quite often used to “soften” the low speed hairpin turns and give a visual reference for the where the end of a board is. Do discs upset the car if you hit them? Yes. Is there a solution? Yes. Don’t hit them. Both boards and discs provide a “penalty” for the driver that can’t keep their race vehicle within the boundaries of the driving lane. Some people don’t like them because, if you hit them regularly, you will end up with a damaged race car. Removing the barrier doesn’t solve that problem; it just changes the problem and creates new ones. One problem it creates it that it encourages people to drive their cars faster than they are able to control them. Another problem is that it allows drivers to enter and exit the track at locations that can cause additional problems. I ran 1/8th scale on-road nitro cars in the H.O.A. series for many years. These are 70mph+ cars that are raced on asphalt parking lots. Guess what they use to lay out the track - boards. In most cases the boards weren’t 3-4 feet back from the edge of the driving lane – they actually were the edge of the driving lane! How about our touring car class? What does that class use to define the edges of the race surface? Boards. There are a lot more turns to negotiate on a touring car road course than on an oval track. Touring cars are also one of the faster cars at our track and yet nobody in that class is complaining about the board barriers. They adjust their driving style and work on their car’s handling to deal with it! We’ve tried several types of materials to define the “inner edge” of the racing lane in an effort to keep people from cutting corners . In my opinion, they have all been failures. They haven’t really done anything except create new problems, extra set-up time, delays during the race day, and limit the possibilities for the on-road lay-out. I don’t think it makes any difference whether we use discs, cones, plastic laminate, carpet tiles, foam, rain gutters, plate steel, sheets of tin or bubble-wrap – until we get back to a definite barrier, that clearly defines the driving lane, we’ll continue to have problems. One final point. If the boards were used as interior barriers for all classes, it would dramatically cut down on the time it takes to change the track back and forth between oval and road course. These are just my opinions, and you know what they say about opinions! I have missed being at the races the last few weeks. Family functions and illness have gotten in the way. I am looking forward to racing this Saturday – no matter what the track set up is like!
Hey, they don’t call me “GRUMPY “ for nothing!
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Post by The Big X on Feb 16, 2011 19:47:02 GMT -5
I was also going to leave this alone but….. From my side of the fence the boards suck!!! Open EDM front wheels do not like board/walls for some strange reason. Touring cars have full bodies and bumpers all the way across to protect them somewhat. Yes we could run late model body’s and bumpers but then comes the body dragging and body braking issues we are trying to avoid. Grumpy from your EDM racing last year you know that hitting the wall inside or out is not always your fault or in your control. Take into consideration the closing rates that the cars are going it is nice to have a place to “hide” once in a while. It is easy to say don’t hit the boards but not easy to do when trying to avoid a spun out car or another wreck or just plain getting side slapped from hard racing. The inside boards leave you no place to go and at just over 3 seconds a lap it does not a lot of time to think about it. Changing the track time. Last time we left the boards in the middle for the heats. Did it speed it along? Not that I noticed. Did it bother me either way? No, but I heard others not liking it as much. I think they were used to it from weeks past. In the past I havent seen a huge time savings having the boards for inner walls when changing the track over. Easier Yes, time savings not so much. But I am fairly new to this rodeo so take it for what it is worth. The bigger races I have been to, limited they are. They do not have an inside board wall. PVC pipe yes but we do not have that option due to how to hold it in place. My thought is a thin piece of flexible plastic (I call it race car plastic from my stock car days) Put some Velcro on the bottom to hold it and maybe some tape on the front edge to stop it from peeling up. It is slick to try and drive on if you clean it daily and not too hard to move for road course. Seen this done in Omaha on the oval. If it is cutting we are concerned about have the drivers call it out if you see someone do it all the time and dock their laps. Cut 1 corner there goes 2 laps or whatever we all know when it is blatant. There are my thoughts which are probably worth not a lot. Chad
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Post by knr-racing99 on Feb 16, 2011 20:17:37 GMT -5
First off, I do not race with you all but like to follow all the happenings down there. In regards to the corners on the oval track, I have raced several tracks and they use a thin hard board, we call it Masonite, painted white and it is slick. If you do run on it, you will slide and spin out so it discourages cutting the corners. It is thin enough at an eighth of an inch(1/8") so it does not hurt tires and will not break front ends of an EDM. If you check out videos of the Snowbirds oval races, you will see what it is and how it works. That is my 2 cents.
Thank you!!!!
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zscott
Heat Race Winner
Posts: 111
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Post by zscott on Feb 16, 2011 20:24:00 GMT -5
im with grumppy use the boards it will make you a better driver i see alot of people cut every time? the boards will solve it and it will be better racing it will ackually make you pass some body rather than cut to pass thats not good racing good racing is when you can go side by side with sombody and make a nice pass.
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harv
Heat Race Winner
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Post by harv on Feb 16, 2011 21:08:15 GMT -5
big x if your worried about not having a place to hide we can always make an opening in the inside wall.
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jheerde
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Post by jheerde on Feb 16, 2011 21:39:41 GMT -5
not to add fuel to the fire but if everyone just went around the track and didnt cut corners anything would be fine. Gerneraly you put something bigger on the inside of the track to make everyone get around the track. that my two cents, that last few weeks ive been racing ive noticed that there is alot of corner cutting. im sure its not people dont do it on purpose, buit seams to happen often.
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boo
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Post by boo on Feb 16, 2011 22:45:44 GMT -5
The few times I have been there it does seem to be a hassle with the laminate on the carpet for the road course guys to try and layout the course to go around it as much as possible, and it does add some time to tear down and set up the course every time. This year is the first year where I have been at a track that did not have a barrier in the middle on their oval. Most places do this to aleviate the corner cutting that I have witness numerous times in the oval races (all oval classes). Should the road course go to discs, laminate or other "barrier" to save on cars breaking also? The barriers make a better driver out of the racer, making them pay attention more to how they are driving and what is around them along with a better mechanic. That is they will need to work on their cars to get them setup to handle correctly to the driver's driving style. Just my observations.
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Post by tmaxx26power on Feb 16, 2011 23:06:20 GMT -5
I don't have a better plan then the current setup we are using now but I'm totally against running the inside boards for the EDM classes. Those cars being delicate and the speeds we are running in the 10.5 class with the full track sure don't allow for much of a hit to break a car. The EDM class is expensive enough to run and at $40 a pair for front a-arms I would rather not add another parts breaking barrier to the oval.
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Post by The Big X on Feb 16, 2011 23:49:33 GMT -5
I have no problems having the boards there if any of you can guarantee that NO ONE will hit me into them. Ya I know that is impossible. But it has happened weekly and will happen again.
If I hit them MYSELF I have no problem paying the bill to fix what I broke. It gets real old real fast fixing crap that you get hit into, but get to pay to fix weekly because of a wall that could be prevented by not being there or moved in 3ft.
I never will claim to be a good driver. But if anyone can put a car together and come show me how a good driver will not have this happen with the inside boards I welcome the challenge. Good driver or not you WILL get hung up in someone else’s mess or cause a bigger one.
Lastly input is great, but if you aren’t in the class not much can be said on how the class should be ran. I have no say in how road stuff should be run nor do I care because I don’t put money into a car for those classes. If I am out voted for having the boards next to the track, fine my class decided that. I will not race any longer but that is my choice because that is what MY class decided on.
On that note a wise man told me and keeps telling me. “These things are TOYS and are for fun.” I guess I will choose what playground to play with my toys on.
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Post by Neisteadt on Feb 16, 2011 23:59:22 GMT -5
I wasn't going to touch this, but I will.
On top of the broken parts issue, there's another issue here and that is safety.
If we run boards on the inside of the track, we need 2 corner marshalls on the inside of the track to remove cars when the get hung up on a board.
We used to do that and it was fine with the mini classes, not a big deal. But I remember the day I probably should have gotten stitches for a major gash in my finger as I tried to marshall a losi slider stuck on the inside board, and another car slammed into that one, then my hand.
The point I'm making is right now, the inside of the track is "self cleaning" (unless a car is upside down). With boards, it takes more marshalling. Plus, you can run a perfect race, 18 inches from the inside rail for all five minutes, and chances are, at some point you'll hit a car stuck on the wall, and end up broke.
Right now, it seems to me that most of the oval racers are walking off the drivers stand with a smile. That won't be the case when cars are broken from boards.
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Post by Jerry Driscoll on Feb 17, 2011 13:40:25 GMT -5
WOW! I think I hit a home run here! As I was typing my last post I kinda had some goals in mind. One was to express some of my opinions - some serious, some kind of tongue-in-cheek. Some people got that. Some didn't. Another goal was to compete with the truthspeaker to see how much I could "stir it up". Another was to see if I could hold the record for the longest, rambling post. I think I succeeded on all three counts! I'm happy now. All kidding aside though....I really enjoy running the cars and competing with the racers in the club we have. I don't care how hard you try, you'll never keep all the racers happy all of the time. All you can do is accept what the majority wants, deal with it, and try to have some FUN! That's what I plan to do. Jerry "Grumpy" Driscoll
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Post by thetruthspeaker on Feb 17, 2011 17:44:51 GMT -5
maybe we could put pillows around the inside boards.
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zscott
Heat Race Winner
Posts: 111
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Post by zscott on Feb 17, 2011 18:34:32 GMT -5
just want to make the racing fair for everybody.
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Post by jeffhuebner on Feb 17, 2011 18:42:54 GMT -5
All good ideas...I have a sheet of black poly and I thought that would work in the corners taped down like the tiles were last time we raced. I liked the boards up inside of the tiles, the disc still caused more cars darting across traffic. The sheet I have is maybe 1/8" thick and could be taped down like the tiles. The sheet is 24" wide and 10' long. I could cut some strips into 3" tall x 10' long and see if something like this would work and also cut some squares to lay in the corners like last time. The black color would be more visable and not break like the tiles. I'll bring this along and see if we can use it. Worth a try?
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Post by sheetmetal2 on Feb 17, 2011 21:04:36 GMT -5
I think it is worth a try
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doser
New Member
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Post by doser on Feb 17, 2011 23:31:38 GMT -5
Wow! I guess I better get my 1.5 cents in this! Yes I am half a cent short! I don't care what we do for the inside barriers and it does not matter what we do there is always going to be someone that is not happy with it. Besides that, my EDM is not fast enough to break. HAHAHA! Jody help me! No matter what we use I am just there for fun, and fun costs money! I have cow pies if you want to give them a go for the markers!!!!!!!!!!
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glo160
Junior Member
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Post by glo160 on Feb 18, 2011 10:36:34 GMT -5
Well. In my opinion, my truck would just run em over anyway.
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Post by Neisteadt on Feb 18, 2011 10:47:52 GMT -5
Hayburn, let's try the poly.
We've been really experimenting with different ideas all year. The laminate was an experiment, the tiles were an experiment. The goal is to find a cost effective way to mark the inside of the corners, that doesn't break equipment.
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Post by tmaxx26power on Feb 18, 2011 13:28:14 GMT -5
Hayburn, let's try the poly. We've been really experimenting with different ideas all year. The laminate was an experiment, the tiles were an experiment. The goal is to find a cost effective way to mark the inside of the corners, that doesn't break equipment. +1 Agreed
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racer6
Heat Race Winner
Posts: 138
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Post by racer6 on Feb 18, 2011 14:59:22 GMT -5
I agree with the poly
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Post by sheetmetal2 on Feb 18, 2011 15:30:56 GMT -5
One thing to keep in mind is that whatever is used is supposed to upset/slow your car just not make you out of control
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Post by jeffhuebner on Feb 25, 2011 11:28:20 GMT -5
I think the poly held up good, but it did still upset the cars some. I have another idea that we can try. I will bring them along on Saturday to try. The inside wall worked but didn't stay in place very well maybe some foam glued to the back side of the poly would work? Anyone have some 2" foam we could try? I have some mini safety cones we could set in the corners...Ha-ha!!! I know where they would be-all over the track!!!
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